What, no aether? No all of the above? Limiting yourself to one element is lame. If I had to pick one though, aether would be it, for it contains the essence of all elements.
Two things:
One, this is isn't really relavant to psionics. If anything at all, this should be in the category, 'psychokinesis'.
Two, if I had the choice, I would go for air because with control of air you control alot of things. Just think, with air you can make a shell around water, earth or fire, therefore giving access to the other elements.
All systems that include an phase elemental component are automatically weakened for every element can be countered by a single or multiple element set generated in the universe. A nonelemental system not effected by phase elemental properties and directly effect all phase types.
In addition phase as a physical property of chemistry has at least 7 phase types; quantum condensate, solid, liquid, gas, plasma, energy, and unity. Energy being at a certain temperature plasma is converted according to e=mc^2 into energy. Unity is when the heat is high enough to force a quantity of any element into a singularity see entropy covariant bound.
So in closing the 4 element phase system is an obsolete system found in philosophy.
[quote="Macman"]So in closing the 4 element phase system is an obsolete system found in philosophy.[/quote]
So it would seem. However the idea of the 4 base elements is a building block of nature. It doesn't necessarily point to a literal concept of matter, but more of a philosophical understanding of behavior. Simply put, there are two fundamental forces in the universe: Stillness (Order), and Motion (Chaos) like a binary system. If they are pitted against each other they would logically negate. But if they are placed in sequence, they create more complex systems. ergo, the 4 classical elements.
Fire: Chaos into Order (10) : Fire is active until there is nothing left to keep it alive
Air: Chaos into Chaos (11) : Air is constantly in motion, it does not rest
Water: Order into Chaos (01) : A standing lake will seek a river to flow into
Earth: Order into Order (00) : The earth is content with it's position
Aether the 5th element is the superposition of these bit sequences.
So i wouldn't consider these obsolete, it seems you have used a wrench to tighten a screw. It's purpose is not that of your attempted use of it.
Besides, you can mix a construct of 10 energy, and a construct of 01 energy, and you would simply get 1001 and 0110 energy. The symbolic state of matter and thus it's properties has no influence on the subject, for the name/symbol is only describing nature of the energetic archetype, not the state of matter.
[quote="ArcAvenger"][quote="Macman"]So in closing the 4 element phase system is an obsolete system found in philosophy.[/quote]
So it would seem. However the idea of the 4 base elements is a building block of nature. It doesn't necessarily point to a literal concept of matter, but more of a philosophical understanding of behavior.
[/quote]
That philosophy was a natural philosophy type held a few thousand years ago give or take a few hundred years. To explain why substances were solid, liquid, gas, or plasma.
Phase types of solid, liquid, and gas as researched by science discovered as such in the last millenium in physical chemistry to be properties of matter. Plasma was discovered in the last few hundred years in the center of all fire based phenomenon. In the last hundred years Einstein discovered mass to energy conversion which happens in the sun at massive temperature.
The nearest to absolute zero kelvin scale calculated physics made possible for scientists to use lasers, particle beams made of protons, and cryogenic cooling to slow matter to almost a stop. In that state the matter compressed to a scale smaller than normal matter known as quantum condensate . In the time since then science has discovered the laws of thermodynamics in modern calculations show that the heat death of the universe will collapse all things to a singulariy called the omega point. At a high enough temperature the phase type of any amount of matter is unity with the omega point singularity from any point to the heat death of the universe.
[quote="ArcAvenger"]Simply put, there are two fundamental forces in the universe: Stillness (Order), and Motion (Chaos) like a binary system. If they are pitted against each other they would logically negate. But if they are placed in sequence, they create more complex systems. ergo, the 4 classical elements.[/quote]
Order is clarity in a classical sense, that is obvious, but chaos has been studied in chaos theory. The progression of chaos theory can be unified with fractals that are clear patterns repeated to maximum complexity. Everything is made up of patterns of clarity. Complex clarity derived from the study of chaos and obvious clarity patterns that are clear in a classical sense of order become the same in the property of clarity. Clarity does not negate clarity, only confusion does.
How is existence made of clarity measured as a binary system? The answer is made up of the use of the Bekenstein Bound, quantum computing, and fractals. The Bekenstein Bound is used to convert things into quantum information. Quantum computing requires the use of (1's), (0's), and simultaneously both called a qubit. Qubits are that which is a direct consequence of trying to compute a binary system with quantum mechanics. Any quantum description of anything has however much information that is, was, and will be made up of patterns. The principle of convergence can be used to derive a single pattern from the multiple patterns. If qubits are 2d and binary bits 1d then the simultaneous use of both 3d. The expression and progression of dimensional properties of the fractal pattern to completion would be governed by geometry. Therefore all things in terms of information are the fractal, geometric, convergence pattern of the quantum description.
[quote="Macman"]
That philosophy was a natural philosophy type held a few thousand years ago give or take a few hundred years. To explain why substances were solid, liquid, gas, or plasma.
Phase types of solid, liquid, and gas as researched by science discovered as such in the last millenium in physical chemistry to be properties of matter. Plasma was discovered in the last few hundred years in the center of all fire based phenomenon. In the last hundred years Einstein discovered mass to energy conversion which happens in the sun at massive temperature.
The nearest to absolute zero kelvin scale calculated physics made possible for scientists to use lasers, particle beams made of protons, and cryogenic cooling to slow matter to almost a stop. In that state the matter compressed to a scale smaller than normal matter known as quantum condensate . In the time since then science has discovered the laws of thermodynamics in modern calculations show that the heat death of the universe will collapse all things to a singulariy called the omega point. At a high enough temperature the phase type of any amount of matter is unity with the omega point singularity from any point to the heat death of the universe.
[/quote]
You know you haven't really forwarded your position by stating this. You've have only stated a bundle of factoids that are vaguely related to your opening statement. However they are not related directly to your position, or even my position. Ergo you have failed to provide adequate backing to your argument, hence I cannot take it very seriously.
That aside, I would like to reiterate that the 4 elements are rooted in hermetic teachings. The elements I speak of are metaphysical in nature, and are the 4 simplest ways nature can manifest. For example one of these would be static electricity, a lightning bolt if you will. The nature of a lightning bolt emerges from the imbalance of charges, or chaos (1). When the conditions are correct there will be a discharge resulting in a balance in the charges between the two interacting subjects. This balance afterward is order (0). Hence the [u][b]nature[/b][/u] of static is rooted in the element Fire (10). Now I ask that you not start talking about lightning static or plasma, I was just stating a metaphor to aid my explanation.
I am not by any means attempting to refute the validity of modern sciences explanation of the states of matter. I am simply stating that the 4 elements has nothing to do with with our current understanding of matter at all. It's like comparing apples to bacon.
[qoute="ArcAvenger"] You know you haven't really forwarded your position by stating this. You've have only stated a bundle of factoids that are vaguely related to your opening statement. However they are not related directly to your position, or even my position. Ergo you have failed to provide adequate backing to your argument, hence I cannot take it very seriously.[/qoute]
In most pagan traditions the phrase "as below is as so above" applies and in most christian traditions the phrase "as above is as so below" applies. Meaning that for nearly all the communities this applies to regard the metaphysical as the reflection of the physical and the physical a reflection of the metaphysical. The 4 phase type system was devoloped by the Ancient Greek as a natural philosophy based on reasoning the physical nature things.
[qoute="ArcAvenger"]That aside, I would like to reiterate that the 4 elements are rooted in hermetic teachings. The elements I speak of are metaphysical in nature, and are the 4 simplest ways nature can manifest. I was just stating a metaphor to aid my explanation.
I am not by any means attempting to refute the validity of modern sciences explanation of the states of matter.[/quote]
I am trying to refute the validity of hermetic use of the 4 phase type system. The incorporation of the 4 phase type system into Hermetic tradition does not change the historical root it came from. Adapting 4 phase type system meant to reason the physical nature of things to a metaphysical framework proves that Hermetics believed "as below is so above". Whatever value the 4 phase type system had in physical matter was overshadowed by its replacement by science. The survival of most pagan and christian traditions in many cases has been influenced by their ability to explain their belief to the same standard of reasoning as science. People who have been taught a subject with a high degree of proven reason expect that degree of proven reason and are loathe to lower that standard to disproven reason.
While my energy is yellow (Green Lantern was actually a good movie, but YELLOW WAS FRAMED.) and most of the energy I receive and put out is through my solar plexus, I would like to be proficient with indigo energy and my 3rd eye, as I currently have zilch for remote viewing/clairvoyance.
Well MacMan. I always wondered why scientists argued so much, and now it's clear. What is the point of all that? A random spewing of knowledge just to sound smart? What are you trying to accomplish with those mini-essays? Because it seems like you just like to hear yourself talk (or type). What you just said has nothing to do with Psionics as it is being discussed in this thread. My suggestion to you is not to blindly seek knowledge but also seek understanding. Become wise and learn how to use the knowledge you gather throughout your life.
Sorry if the above doesn't make much sense. I'm very tired.
Knowledge can not fully be realized until method is applied to give it purpose and meaning. The opposite is also true; Methods can not be fully realized until knowledge is applied to give it clarity and relevance. Balance in all things.
In my personal opinion, theory is of novelty. You cannot argue a theory without purpose. Where there is no application there is little purpose, other than to placate the awkward gap in ones understanding.
I'm not inclined to disagree with you Macman, you have a decent sense of logic. But there is a time and a place for such things. Theories and observations are best left for blogs and note paper. It's not offensive to see a line or two of someones opinions in a post, but I would save the longer material for you're personal books. Besides, everyones understanding of things is respective to their perception, hardly any piece of knowledge is relevant to all people, unless of course it has ties with a practical purpose; and that is the point.
I am an amateur scientist. As an amateur scientist I tend to try to prove or disprove each and every concept in a post.
The point of scientific proofs is repeatability. Every scientific principle has been experimentally proven by each and every scientist who has ever tested it, no matter how different each scientist is from another.
Relevance of methods is related to applicability to practice and principles exist for their utility in determining methods. Even AI are able to learn principles, methods, and practices using Bayesian networks based not only on knowledge and description from knowledge, but also underlying beliefs of descriptions based on knowledge. AI are only a relationship between ones and zeros.
I will think on how to relate my ideas as expiramental principles and theoretical applications for a subject. Balance for me is based on; life is that which life is that is life itself. For any who go too far into the life inside or outside, find all things lose their relevance.
I cannot vote in this poll for lack of an "all of the above" choice.
What, no aether? No all of the above? Limiting yourself to one element is lame. If I had to pick one though, aether would be it, for it contains the essence of all elements.
Two things:
One, this is isn't really relavant to psionics. If anything at all, this should be in the category, 'psychokinesis'.
Two, if I had the choice, I would go for air because with control of air you control alot of things. Just think, with air you can make a shell around water, earth or fire, therefore giving access to the other elements.
All systems that include an phase elemental component are automatically weakened for every element can be countered by a single or multiple element set generated in the universe. A nonelemental system not effected by phase elemental properties and directly effect all phase types.
In addition phase as a physical property of chemistry has at least 7 phase types; quantum condensate, solid, liquid, gas, plasma, energy, and unity. Energy being at a certain temperature plasma is converted according to e=mc^2 into energy. Unity is when the heat is high enough to force a quantity of any element into a singularity see entropy covariant bound.
So in closing the 4 element phase system is an obsolete system found in philosophy.
[quote="Macman"]So in closing the 4 element phase system is an obsolete system found in philosophy.[/quote]
So it would seem. However the idea of the 4 base elements is a building block of nature. It doesn't necessarily point to a literal concept of matter, but more of a philosophical understanding of behavior. Simply put, there are two fundamental forces in the universe: Stillness (Order), and Motion (Chaos) like a binary system. If they are pitted against each other they would logically negate. But if they are placed in sequence, they create more complex systems. ergo, the 4 classical elements.
Fire: Chaos into Order (10) : Fire is active until there is nothing left to keep it alive
Air: Chaos into Chaos (11) : Air is constantly in motion, it does not rest
Water: Order into Chaos (01) : A standing lake will seek a river to flow into
Earth: Order into Order (00) : The earth is content with it's position
Aether the 5th element is the superposition of these bit sequences.
So i wouldn't consider these obsolete, it seems you have used a wrench to tighten a screw. It's purpose is not that of your attempted use of it.
Besides, you can mix a construct of 10 energy, and a construct of 01 energy, and you would simply get 1001 and 0110 energy. The symbolic state of matter and thus it's properties has no influence on the subject, for the name/symbol is only describing nature of the energetic archetype, not the state of matter.
[quote="ArcAvenger"][quote="Macman"]So in closing the 4 element phase system is an obsolete system found in philosophy.[/quote]
So it would seem. However the idea of the 4 base elements is a building block of nature. It doesn't necessarily point to a literal concept of matter, but more of a philosophical understanding of behavior.
[/quote]
That philosophy was a natural philosophy type held a few thousand years ago give or take a few hundred years. To explain why substances were solid, liquid, gas, or plasma.
Phase types of solid, liquid, and gas as researched by science discovered as such in the last millenium in physical chemistry to be properties of matter. Plasma was discovered in the last few hundred years in the center of all fire based phenomenon. In the last hundred years Einstein discovered mass to energy conversion which happens in the sun at massive temperature.
The nearest to absolute zero kelvin scale calculated physics made possible for scientists to use lasers, particle beams made of protons, and cryogenic cooling to slow matter to almost a stop. In that state the matter compressed to a scale smaller than normal matter known as quantum condensate . In the time since then science has discovered the laws of thermodynamics in modern calculations show that the heat death of the universe will collapse all things to a singulariy called the omega point. At a high enough temperature the phase type of any amount of matter is unity with the omega point singularity from any point to the heat death of the universe.
[quote="ArcAvenger"]Simply put, there are two fundamental forces in the universe: Stillness (Order), and Motion (Chaos) like a binary system. If they are pitted against each other they would logically negate. But if they are placed in sequence, they create more complex systems. ergo, the 4 classical elements.[/quote]
Order is clarity in a classical sense, that is obvious, but chaos has been studied in chaos theory. The progression of chaos theory can be unified with fractals that are clear patterns repeated to maximum complexity. Everything is made up of patterns of clarity. Complex clarity derived from the study of chaos and obvious clarity patterns that are clear in a classical sense of order become the same in the property of clarity. Clarity does not negate clarity, only confusion does.
How is existence made of clarity measured as a binary system? The answer is made up of the use of the Bekenstein Bound, quantum computing, and fractals. The Bekenstein Bound is used to convert things into quantum information. Quantum computing requires the use of (1's), (0's), and simultaneously both called a qubit. Qubits are that which is a direct consequence of trying to compute a binary system with quantum mechanics. Any quantum description of anything has however much information that is, was, and will be made up of patterns. The principle of convergence can be used to derive a single pattern from the multiple patterns. If qubits are 2d and binary bits 1d then the simultaneous use of both 3d. The expression and progression of dimensional properties of the fractal pattern to completion would be governed by geometry. Therefore all things in terms of information are the fractal, geometric, convergence pattern of the quantum description.
[quote="Macman"]
That philosophy was a natural philosophy type held a few thousand years ago give or take a few hundred years. To explain why substances were solid, liquid, gas, or plasma.
Phase types of solid, liquid, and gas as researched by science discovered as such in the last millenium in physical chemistry to be properties of matter. Plasma was discovered in the last few hundred years in the center of all fire based phenomenon. In the last hundred years Einstein discovered mass to energy conversion which happens in the sun at massive temperature.
The nearest to absolute zero kelvin scale calculated physics made possible for scientists to use lasers, particle beams made of protons, and cryogenic cooling to slow matter to almost a stop. In that state the matter compressed to a scale smaller than normal matter known as quantum condensate . In the time since then science has discovered the laws of thermodynamics in modern calculations show that the heat death of the universe will collapse all things to a singulariy called the omega point. At a high enough temperature the phase type of any amount of matter is unity with the omega point singularity from any point to the heat death of the universe.
[/quote]
You know you haven't really forwarded your position by stating this. You've have only stated a bundle of factoids that are vaguely related to your opening statement. However they are not related directly to your position, or even my position. Ergo you have failed to provide adequate backing to your argument, hence I cannot take it very seriously.
That aside, I would like to reiterate that the 4 elements are rooted in hermetic teachings. The elements I speak of are metaphysical in nature, and are the 4 simplest ways nature can manifest. For example one of these would be static electricity, a lightning bolt if you will. The nature of a lightning bolt emerges from the imbalance of charges, or chaos (1). When the conditions are correct there will be a discharge resulting in a balance in the charges between the two interacting subjects. This balance afterward is order (0). Hence the [u][b]nature[/b][/u] of static is rooted in the element Fire (10). Now I ask that you not start talking about lightning static or plasma, I was just stating a metaphor to aid my explanation.
I am not by any means attempting to refute the validity of modern sciences explanation of the states of matter. I am simply stating that the 4 elements has nothing to do with with our current understanding of matter at all. It's like comparing apples to bacon.
[qoute="ArcAvenger"] You know you haven't really forwarded your position by stating this. You've have only stated a bundle of factoids that are vaguely related to your opening statement. However they are not related directly to your position, or even my position. Ergo you have failed to provide adequate backing to your argument, hence I cannot take it very seriously.[/qoute]
In most pagan traditions the phrase "as below is as so above" applies and in most christian traditions the phrase "as above is as so below" applies. Meaning that for nearly all the communities this applies to regard the metaphysical as the reflection of the physical and the physical a reflection of the metaphysical. The 4 phase type system was devoloped by the Ancient Greek as a natural philosophy based on reasoning the physical nature things.
[qoute="ArcAvenger"]That aside, I would like to reiterate that the 4 elements are rooted in hermetic teachings. The elements I speak of are metaphysical in nature, and are the 4 simplest ways nature can manifest. I was just stating a metaphor to aid my explanation.
I am not by any means attempting to refute the validity of modern sciences explanation of the states of matter.[/quote]
I am trying to refute the validity of hermetic use of the 4 phase type system. The incorporation of the 4 phase type system into Hermetic tradition does not change the historical root it came from. Adapting 4 phase type system meant to reason the physical nature of things to a metaphysical framework proves that Hermetics believed "as below is so above". Whatever value the 4 phase type system had in physical matter was overshadowed by its replacement by science. The survival of most pagan and christian traditions in many cases has been influenced by their ability to explain their belief to the same standard of reasoning as science. People who have been taught a subject with a high degree of proven reason expect that degree of proven reason and are loathe to lower that standard to disproven reason.
While my energy is yellow (Green Lantern was actually a good movie, but YELLOW WAS FRAMED.) and most of the energy I receive and put out is through my solar plexus, I would like to be proficient with indigo energy and my 3rd eye, as I currently have zilch for remote viewing/clairvoyance.
Well MacMan. I always wondered why scientists argued so much, and now it's clear. What is the point of all that? A random spewing of knowledge just to sound smart? What are you trying to accomplish with those mini-essays? Because it seems like you just like to hear yourself talk (or type). What you just said has nothing to do with Psionics as it is being discussed in this thread. My suggestion to you is not to blindly seek knowledge but also seek understanding. Become wise and learn how to use the knowledge you gather throughout your life.
Sorry if the above doesn't make much sense. I'm very tired.
Yes Wiz that was well put.
Knowledge can not fully be realized until method is applied to give it purpose and meaning. The opposite is also true; Methods can not be fully realized until knowledge is applied to give it clarity and relevance. Balance in all things.
In my personal opinion, theory is of novelty. You cannot argue a theory without purpose. Where there is no application there is little purpose, other than to placate the awkward gap in ones understanding.
I'm not inclined to disagree with you Macman, you have a decent sense of logic. But there is a time and a place for such things. Theories and observations are best left for blogs and note paper. It's not offensive to see a line or two of someones opinions in a post, but I would save the longer material for you're personal books. Besides, everyones understanding of things is respective to their perception, hardly any piece of knowledge is relevant to all people, unless of course it has ties with a practical purpose; and that is the point.
I am an amateur scientist. As an amateur scientist I tend to try to prove or disprove each and every concept in a post.
The point of scientific proofs is repeatability. Every scientific principle has been experimentally proven by each and every scientist who has ever tested it, no matter how different each scientist is from another.
Relevance of methods is related to applicability to practice and principles exist for their utility in determining methods. Even AI are able to learn principles, methods, and practices using Bayesian networks based not only on knowledge and description from knowledge, but also underlying beliefs of descriptions based on knowledge. AI are only a relationship between ones and zeros.
I will think on how to relate my ideas as expiramental principles and theoretical applications for a subject. Balance for me is based on; life is that which life is that is life itself. For any who go too far into the life inside or outside, find all things lose their relevance.
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